Good News

Here's the good news. Professor Bernard Knight, CBE, MD, DM, PhD, DSc, LLD, FRCPath, MRCP, DMJ, Barrister, Britain’s foremost Forensic Pathologist has agreed to become President of the Madoc International Research Association. Professor Knight is now retired and he and his son Huw have become active members of the Association and joined us on our recent trip to Lundy Island. Professor Knight writes whodunit novels and he has actually written a novel based on the Madoc legend titled “Madoc, Prince of America”

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Here’s what you have all been waiting for: Jane Goodwin’s lecture on her DNA thesis: It is a summary of the talk she gave at the Madoc International Research Association meeting in August. It is based on the work she is doing on her book, and although it is only in the first draft stage she would welcome any comments you have!

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Have you ever heard the expression nature or nurture? The nature part of this statement refers to the influences the genes we possess weald over who you are and what you are like, this is opposed to nurture, where your environment, where you live, and what external stimuli influence what you are like and who you are. The approach being used here is a genetic one; so we are looking at nature. The advent of modern genetic techniques has made analysis of a population easier than ever before.

All healthy humans inherit forty-six chromosomes in twenty-three pairs, one of each pair of chromosomes is inherited from your mother and the other one of each pair is inherited from your father. In twenty-two pairs of your chromosomes there is extensive shuffling of genes when recombination occurs during the fertilisation of the embryo. The remaining pair of chromosomes in the human genome is sex specific, in other words, it depends on your gender which of these two chromosomes you inherit, in the case of a male embryo inheritance of the X chromosome is from the mother (the maternal lineage) and inheritance of the Y chromosome is from the father, through the paternal line. A portion of the Y chromosome recombines with the X chromosome and so a certain amount of shuffling takes place on these chromosomes too but to a lesser degree than on the other 22 pairs. However, there is a section of the Y chromosome that does not recombine and this is the area studied during population studies such as this, and in a lot of forensic investigations. In the case of the female embryo, the sex chromosomes are both X chromosomes, one inherited from your mother and one from your father. All children, regardless of their gender, inherit their mitochondrial DNA from their mothers.

There are between 1,000 and 10,000 mitochondria in each cell and each mitochondrion contains at least one circular mtDNA molecule; the mitochondria are the organelles in the cells that are responsible for energy conversion within the cells and are often referred to as the powerhouses of the cells. An organelle is just what it sounds like, a small organ (these organelles are the organs of the cells).

Two genetic regions have been examined during the study that inspired my forthcoming book; the first is the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). MtDNA is a small, circular, genetic molecule and is thought to be inherited directly and exclusively through the maternal line. When you consider that the chromosomes contain about 3 billion base pairs, that is 3,000,000,000 letters, the mtDNA is very much smaller as it only contains 16,568 letters in humans.

The reason that the theory of inheritance from your mother for the mtDNA molecule is assumed is, because, at embryonic fertilisation, any mitochondria that are contained in the sperm are concentrated in the tail. The tail of the sperm detaches from the head of the sperm once fertilisation occurs, and only the sperm head penetrates the egg. This, in combination with the size difference between the sperm and egg cells, causes large numbers of mitochondria, and along with it mtDNA, to be inherited from the maternal gamete (egg).

The mtDNA is very small when compared to chromosomal DNA, when you consider that the chromosomes are assumed to contain 3 billion bases, made up of Adenosine (A), Thiamine (T), Cytosine (C) and Guanine (G), the mitochondrial DNA is tiny when compared to this as it only contains 16568 base pairs.

For the mtDNA and the non-recombining region of the Y chromosome any changes are due to mutation alone, as such, these mutations supply extensive information on the migratory history of both the female and male populations. It might help to think of these mutations as like having a string of beads with four different coloured beads along it.

T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A

Now, if you change the occasional base every now and again (this can take generations to change even one base in real life) but for this exercise we’ll speed up time.
After only 4 changes this is what the strand could look like,

T G C A G G C A T G C A T G C G T G G G T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A

Change a few more and the strand looks very different from its original.

A G C A G G C A T G A A A G C G T G G G T G C A T A C A T A C A T G C A

This process goes on constantly and the more changes that occur over time, the greater the difference between the original strand and the daughter strand. There is an added complication in that sometimes an insert of DNA bases will occur, so our original strand could soon look like this:

A G C A G G C A T G A A A G C C C C C C C G T G G G T G C A T A C A T A C A T G C A

Not only is the strand different now but it is also longer. In the same way, deletions of part of the strand can also occur, so, with a small deletion our strand could look like this,

A G C A G G C A T G G C C C C C C C G T G G G T G C A T A C A T A C A T G C A

Now, if we compare the mutated strand with the original,

A G C A G G C A T G G C C C C C C C G T G G G T G C A T A C A T A C A T G C A

T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A T G C A

You can see that there is a big difference, but it is still related to the original strand because it has mutated from it and similarities between the new strand and the original can still be seen.

The mtDNA and its mutations have been extensively researched since the 1980s and a vast amount of information, about a high proportion of the worlds’ populations, has been gathered from this research. At the beginning of my research, only one major paper about the mtDNA of the Welsh population had been written, and there was low south Welsh representation within that paper. Ninety-two Welsh samples had been investigated but only 6 of those came from south Wales (Gwent and Glamorgan). My study attempted to redress this imbalance by taking 121 north Welsh, 42 mid Welsh, 194 south Welsh samples of the mitochondrial molecule and comparing them to 126 English samples of mitochondrial DNA that were included as a control group.

Now, let me explain haplogroups to you. First of all, a haplogroup is a group of people who are related by genetic mutation, just as you are related to members of your family by close genetic relationships you also a have more distant, but larger genetic family. This family is called your haplogroup; you share a common ancestor with other people of your haplogroup and an even more recent common ancestor with people who are the same haplotype as you. A haplotype is a smaller group within a haplogroup. The difference between a haplogroup and a haplotype is that a haplogroup can be likened to a library full of books. In one corner of the library are the detective thrillers all grouped together, if you think of your haplotype being within one closely related group such as detective thrillers and your haplogroup as the library as a whole you can see this connection. You can take this analogy further by saying that all detective thrillers that are written by the same author would be your immediate family, mum, sisters and brothers, maternal grandmother and all your mothers’ relatives. You would have more genetic markers in common with people of the same haplotype than with people of the same haplogroup, which is a much larger family. We can take this analogy further if we see the rest of Europe and its other 8 haplogroups as the town the library is situated in, with all of mankind as analogous to the county, which holds the town. This is a very difficult concept to understand so don’t beat yourself up if you don’t get it straight away, I will describe this another way too.

If you turn the library analogy around and look at it from another angle, the members of your immediate family, your parents and children, are very closely related to you, they share an enormous amount of genes with you, now, expand your family outwards by one step, your aunts, uncles and cousins, these would be members of your family once removed, they still share large amounts of genetic material with you but not as much as your immediate family share. Next look at your cousins’ children, these are usually referred to as twice removed, or second cousins, these are members of your family but they are even more genetically distant to you than your mum, dad and children are. Now, if you see your haplotype as a much larger family circle around you, maybe hundreds of times removed, and your haplogroup as an even more distant circle, perhaps thousands of times removed, you can see that you are genetically related to a much larger family and this family is called your haplogroup.

I have also included the following information in the draft of my book and if I want to go any deeper I will run everything about the Mandans past you all before I send anything to the publisher! (Please bear in mind that it isn’t due to go to the publisher before December 2004 and I will not write anything about the Mandans without letting you lot see and approve it first)

There are nine European haplogroups and these European/Caucasian specific haplogroups are named: H, I, J, K, T, U, V, W and X. There is no particular reason for calling the haplogroups by these letters, this letter terminology has been used by various researchers in various parts of the world since these types of studies have begun, therefore, these letter names have stuck. There is a bit of haplogroup sharing between continents, with haplogroup U being shared between Europeans and Africans, and haplogroup X being shared between Europeans and Native Americans. Incidentally, there is a question mark over the routes of migration used by the members of haplogroup X onto the American continent and therefore the European origins for these Native Americans is unknown at the moment. It is well established that the Native American people migrated across the Bering land bridge when it was in place thousands of years ago, and the majority of the Native American people are members of distinctly Asian mitochondrial haplogroups as is to be expected because of this migration. However, there are a number of Native Americans who belong to haplogroup X and the route the ancestors of this haplogroup took across from Europe is unknown as yet.

As you can see, I haven’t mentioned the Mandans or White Madoc by name, just made people aware of the question hanging over the origins of some Native Americans. During the MIRA meeting we also discussed alternative genetic materials to get tested as there is an ancestor issue hanging over getting ancient human remains to genetically test, it has been suggested that we look at examining either cattle or horses, neither of which is indigenous to the Americas.

I have since then looked into the possibility of identifying the genetic origins of horses, at the moment there is at least 1 paper concerning the mitochondrial DNA of horses, this is fortunate as I already know the genetics of mtDNA so understanding this paper shouldn’t take huge amounts of time. Once I have this paper I will study it and report my findings to you. In an ideal world we will discover that the horses of the world have had enough research performed on them to enable determination of their geographic origins and that the pre Columbian horses buried in the Americas are genetically European and have a provable connection to Wales.

The cattle are another issue, I haven’t looked into their genetics yet, because of a lack of time primarily, I am training to be a teacher at the moment as I explained to you all at the meeting, and in order to do justice to this training, I need to concentrate my efforts on it. However, I certainly haven’t forgotten my obligations to you and will continue to beaver away as time permits.

In the meeting, Professor Bernard Knight and I discussed the blood group frequencies in Wales, the following is another abstract from my book and is the information I have gathered on the subject.

Support for the Welsh two origin hypothesis can be found in the research of Watkin undertaken in 1986, he states that leaving aside a few coastal settlements, the indigenous population of Wales would appear from ABO blood group evidence to be made up of two different stocks; one inhabiting the north and much of mid Wales and the other the south of Wales. On the moor land and its fringes, traces of a third people whose ancestors were very probably one of Wales’s very early inhabitants can still be detected according to his research. The evidence from ABO blood groups amassed in his study show that the major ABO difference lies between the people of the north and mid Wales, who, in the main are akin to the Scots and the Irish, and those of south Wales who are more likely closely related to the Cornish and the Bretons. Watkin explains the distribution of the ABO blood groups in Wales the following manner; “ The exceptionally high A gene frequency (33.6%), this gene gives the blood group A to its owners, of South-east little England beyond Wales (the name given to the southern part of Pembrokeshire where, for about 800 years there has been a non-Welsh speaking population) whose only European counterpart is to be found in Scandinavia, supports the view held by the Royal Commission that there was a Viking settlement in this area of Wales.”

His research goes on to say that the medium A wave (25% –29%) common to most areas of rural south Wales is also common to Cornwall cannot be Anglo Saxon according to Watkin, because the Anglo Saxons did not invade Wales and only formed a ruling minority in Cornwall. This medium A wave may have been introduced into Britain by Celtic-speaking people (the Celts). The higher B frequency (7.6%) of western as opposed to eastern Wales (the reverse of the pattern in Europe generally) and its particular association with moors and moor land fringes suggests that B is an ancient feature in western Wales and is not, as has been claimed, an importation from eastern Europe and adjacent Asia in historical times. The people of the low B (<5%) area (which spills over into part of Shropshire) were investigated in greater detail owing to the occurrence of low B among a relict population, the Basques, who are another Celtic people. No increase in Rh negative (as exists amongst the Basques) was observed. The Basques are assumed to be the Iberian population from which the South Welsh people originated.

Watkins reports that very high frequencies of O gene are found on both moorland and coastal plain in north Wales but in south Wales they are confined to the Black Mountains of Brecknock, the Epynt range and the adjacent Wye valley from the English border upstream as far as Builth. He goes on to explain that the full extent of the South Wales territory originally settled by the very high number of O gene people is difficult to establish in view of the overwhelming number of immigrants who entered the coalfield. During the course of this research no distinctions between the people of the south Wales coalfield and the rest of south Wales has been mooted, the people of Wales have been assigned their nationalities by as careful means as possible and these are the only criteria used, not by geographic areas within regions.

The very high O gene frequencies (70% - 75%) of north and mid Wales and their remains on some of the areas of early settlement in south Wales suggest that a high frequency of O gene proceeded the medium A wave in the south of the Principality. Watkin concludes by saying that the very high frequencies of O gene with A and B gene frequencies of the type common to Wales occur in other countries, but rarely. They are, however, found in the western Caucasus, among numerous Mediterranean Islands, in parts of North Africa among some of its old-established ‘White Mediterranean People’, along parts of the Bay of Biscay, in Scotland and Ireland as well as Iceland. Whether all are remnants of a related stock is arguable, but archaeology, physical anthropology and linguistics lend support to the view that a movement of people who might be described as the ancient mariners occurred from the Mediterranean region into Wales.

All very intriguing I’m sure you will agree, if the Iberians did contribute to our gene pool, then this means they travelled up into Wales thousands of years ago along what must have been treacherous routes, either by sea across the Atlantic ocean and onto our shores, or, on foot walking through Spain, France and England to get to Wales.

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North Wales Tour

On Friday the 7th June 2002 a party of the Madoc International Research Assoc. ventured on a journey of exploration to Madoc territory in North Wales. The party consisted of Howard Kimberley, Allyn Rees, Keith Davies, Bill Isaac, Neil Perry, Stephen Grant-Davies, Emlyn Williams and his son Thomas.
We left South Wales at approximately 3pm arriving at the Youth hostel outside Dollgellau after picking Howard up at Llandrindod Wells at approximately 7.30pm.

	Outside Youth Hostel

Having booked in, our first decision was where to eat, unanimous decision was a local pub. It was now we discovered that our driver Emlyn Williams was related to a Llama, because he had an irresistible urge to find the narrowest track that ascended the mountain vertically, this trend continued throughout the trip causing some anxiety amongst some of the party and curing any constipation problems. After several attempts we climbed half way up Cader Idris and found the Gwernan Lake Hotel near Dolgellau. We had a pleasant meal meeting a gentleman Paul ………..? a primary school headmaster from County Durham who was very taken with our quest and said he would follow our progress via our website.

Day 2 began with a visit to the the Cader Idris book shop in Dolgellau,which the owner had kindly opened early for us. Several books of interest were purchased

We then stopped at Cymer Abbey a short distance from Dolgellau,this was built by the Cistercian monks and was the same style as Conway Abbey also built by Cistercian monks and where the first recorded mention of Madoc was kept ,later being moved to Maenan near Llanwrst.

From Cymer Abbey we proceeded to Blaenau Ffestiniog for a coffee break and another welsh book shop,”Siop Lyfrau’r Bost” where we found more books and information on Madoc, meeting a local who asked Howard if we were from the deep south and did we still have slavery down there. We then moved on to Dolwyddelan, here Madoc is believed to have been born. The stone castle was built in1210 to 1230 a little after Madoc’s time, the castle concerning Madoc being in a nearby field, but we investigated the stone castle first. We ascended to the top where some magnificent views could be seen

Several of the party (the younger ones climbed to the top of a hill behind the castle to be able to get a picture of the stone castle with the old castle in distance beyond.

There is also a photo of inside the castle

We then proceeded through a farmer’s field to view the remains of the castle used by Madoc.All that remained was an earthen tump covered in trees

Tomen castle would have had a large tower on top surrounded by a wooden enclosure and dry moat.
Lunch at Dolwyddelan
Our next stop was at Maenan near Llanwrst where Conway Abbey was moved to because the English King Henry 2nd wished to build on site of original Abbey. However we could find no traces of Abbey and were told by local people that the Abbey did not survive long being built on the wrong side of the valley as at that time the road ran on opposite side of valley.The land was also very wet as it had not been drained then,the last 4 monks died and were buried on site long before Henry the 8th’s dissolution of the Abbey’s. Some of the stones were used in the Conway Parish Church.

	Building on site of 2nd Conway Abbey

We then moved on to Aber-Kerrick-Gwynion , (Ros-on Sea) to find the quay that Madoc sailed from on his 1st voyage. However before discovering the quay we came across what is claimed to be the smallest church in Britain, the church of St.Trillo & St. Elidan built over a 6th century Holy well

We then discovered what remains of the quay that Madoc sailed from in the garden of a private house.The people who owned it were away and a kindly neighbour Mrs Walters showed us around, a slate plaque commemorates the site

The next place of interest we visited was Degannwy Castle an Old Welsh castle overlooking Conway and Anglesey. It was a difficult climb to reach the top but the views were worth it. The castle would have guarded the sea routes as one could see 360 degrees from top, Conway castle was dwarfed by the height.

We then entered Conway to see the parish church, unfortunately it was closed, but Emlyn obtained a print out from the information centre. It said that the west end of nave and the wall on north side along with some of the east end were from the original church of Conway Abbey.
We then went on to Bangor and booked in to the youth Hostel for the night. Next Morning we were renamed, as we were waiting for breakfast, the cook called us to eat with the words “Madoc Clan” breakfast is ready, after which it became the term to address us by.
Our 1st visit on Sunday morning was to Aber-Gwyn-Gregin, where Howard had arranged a visit to Garth Celyn, a 12th century welsh court house and a tour by the owner Mrs.Kathryn Gibson. This turned out to be the most informative and interesting couple of hours I’ve spent since joining the group. Mrs Gibson is an incredible lady she gave us so much information that it will require a report of its own, however for this preliminary report I will try to pick out the points which deal with Madoc. The first thing she told us was that Garth Celyn was not only the Welsh Court House of Llewellyn Fawr,but also served as guard house overlooking the Menai Staits and a bell situated in the tower of Garth Celyn would be rung to warn local people of any danger. She also said that the Celts living along the seaboard from Cornwall to Scotland, were very experienced sailors and would do most of their trading and travelling by sea as it was easier than land movement. This changed our view that Madoc received his love of the sea and seamanship solely from the Vikings,it now appears that he could have received it from the Celtic side of his family.She also pointed out that Madoc may not have been a son of Owain Gwynedd but a highly respected and well thought of emissary /ambassador for Owain from a high ranking Welsh/Celtic family. It was possible that Madoc would have visited Garth Celyn as it was an important Welsh/Celtic vantage point, and vital to the shipping trade of the day.The Celtic lords who lived there would have earned their power and wealth from the sea,so it would not have been unusual to receive an emissary from the powerful Owain Gwynedd.
Mrs Gibson gave us a complete tour of the grounds and the house which will be the subject of a later and more detailed report, to quote Howard “It was like having your first History lesson”, she really is an incredible woman.

After taking our leave of Mrs Gibson we had lunch at a local hostelry,realizing we did not have time to visit Angelseyand return for our appointment with the Dean of Banger Cathedral at 4pm,we decided to visit the 2nd highest waterfall in Wales which was close by. It was roughly a 3mile walk to the falls along the river, quite invigorating although personally I would not have chosen to do it straight after a large meal. The Rhaedr-Fawr [Aber Falls] area spectacular sight falling some………….feet

We went onto Bangor to meet the Dean of Bangor Cathedral the Rev Tegid Roberts. He read us a 14c poem/ode which referred to Madoc’s journey, this was really good news confirming an early reference to Madoc, it was in Welsh and Keith Davies is hopefully translating it for us. It also said he was an envoy of Owain Gwynedd. He showed us where Owain Gwynedd was originally buried in 1169 and explained why he had been moved outside in 1188.Gerald of Wales came in 1188, and excommunicated him because he had appointed his own Archbishop without the consent of the Pope, and therefore was not worthy to be buried inside near altar.

Thus our visit ended on an upbeat note. Thanks to everyone for information provided.

A big 'Thank You' to Neil Perry for the write up of the North Wales tour

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Extremely Sad News

Dr Islyn Thomas OBE, Maesteg born but raised in America, past away on the day he was due to leave for his annual pilgrimage to the “Land of his Fathers”. He was both my inspiration and my mentor. His insight and courage to promote Madoc, and the most famous Welshman of them all, Saint Patrick, were legendary, even if the American papers usually refrained from publishing his St Patrick stories for fear of upsetting the Irish-Americans.

A native Welshman, Islyn Thomas was born in Maesteg, Wales, in 1912, the son of coal-mining parents. He went to the United States as a young boy, and grew up in Scranton, Pennsylvania. After graduating from Johnson Technical Institute in 1930, he worked for several years for Consolidated Moulded Products, then one of the world’s largest plastics manufacturers.

World War II found him with the Ideal Novelty and Toy Company, which had just received a contract to produce 9 million gas masks for the US military. While there he engineered parts for the famous Rolls Royce Merlin aircraft engine, which powered one of the war’s most important fighter planes, the magnificent “Spitfire” of the Royal Air Force. He also worked on plastic parts used in the “Manhattan Project” the secret US effort to build the atomic bomb.

Following the war, Thomas started his own firm, Thomas Toys, where he invented over 600 plastic toys. He became the biggest producer of plastic toys in the World and became known as “The Prince of Plastics”. He sold the firm in 1960 and launched Thomas International, which has provided consulting services to plastics companies in over 20 countries around the world. In recognition of his accomplishments in the advancement of plastics in the free world, Queen Elizabeth II made him a member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire in 1975.

He was an avid Welsh history researcher and writer. Thomas was the author of Our Welsh Heritage, a compendium of Welsh-American history and facts, including articles on such famous Welsh-Americans as Thomas Jefferson and Daniel Boone. He was a co-founder and served as president of the National Welsh-American Foundation. Dr Islyn Thomas O.B.E. was presented with the 1999 George Jones Award for the Preservation of Welsh-American Heritage by Green Mountain College.